N/W vs. W/N - Guild Wars Forums

Kharnal · Dec 05, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Basically mana vs. armor in a life stealing build

N/W would be either a blood/death/hammer or blood/curses/hammer

W/N would be either blood/hammer or blood/hammer/strength

I'm not sure whether having the extra mana of N/W would keep me alive with life stealing if I'm going melee.

I'm not sure if a W/N has enough mana to tank comparable to a W/Monk

When it comes to equipment I really have no idea.

with a blood/death/hammer build I'm not really sure either if being able to steal life from minions is worth more than putting more points into blood.

eom · Dec 06, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

so, you're debating which to take?

my only character to date is a 15th lvl w/n (sword/curses), so I really couldn't comment much on other builds, but warrior as a secondary seems a little strange to me ---- I'm not sure what you'd get out of it for sacrificing your necro attribute pts and skill bar.
I don't really know if you're good enough to stay alive in melee w/necro armor, but I wouldn't get too dependent on minions to keep you alive, as there will be parts of the game w/o any.

it kind of depends on your party makeup, I think, and what style of play you like.

right now, my warrior armor keeps me alive and I use the crap out of parasitic bond and insidious parasite to heal myself.
(note: you get the payoff on one of those when the creature dies, so you don't have to wait the full 20 seonds)
as you mentioned, the big drawback is the puny mana pool and the sickly 2 pip regen, but I can get around this somewhat by trying to stick to lower energy spells, getting items and glads armor to double my pool, and using bonetti's defense in a crowd (regain 5 energy every time they whack you).

Kharnal · Dec 06, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

My goal is to be an extra damage off-tank, that doesn't depend on the big heal.

There's just so many stackable necro life stealing skills that if you aren't taking a lot of damage then you aren't using them to their full advantage. So I'm trying to calcluate the benefits of extra life stealing spells vs. damage reduction of armor.

I would want the warrior sub for knockdown with hammers for little mana cuz my armor sux and I would have more mana to spam all my life steal skills.

pagansaint · Dec 06, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Axe and Sword are good choices for N/W primaries, due to the fact you can use your offhand for extra energy and skill/recharge boosts.

A few of the skills along those lines really can complement the Necro skill set quite well.

Adrenaline spike attacks and deep wound are a great help to a VERY energy consuming build, and the faster attack rates plus a zealous hilt can increase your energy effeciency by a good bit.

Legendary Battousai · Dec 06, 2005, 04:19 AM // 04:19

mark of pain + hundred blades + barbs FTW

QuixotesGhost · Dec 06, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

If you're going necro primary I wouldn't use hammers, becuase you lose out on Stonefist Gauntlets. I'm interested in this thread, I have a friend that just bought GW and is playing a N/W and I'm trying to think of ways that he could survive in close combat. I've never played a necro primary so I'm at a bit of a loss.

Kharnal · Dec 06, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

It looks like some of the defensive skills found in tactics (didn't notice it at first, but disciplined stance looks awesome because I can cast with it) would be useful in staying alive.

Try and get offensive healing from the necro abilities and defense from warrior skills. So 12/12 Blood and Tactics looks like the build for me.

Hope it does enough damage to be effective...

pagansaint · Dec 06, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

For PvE the way to go is Cyclone Axe and Watch Yourself! with a Zealous Haft and a defense mod of some kind for survival.

Have used this to pretty great effect farming griffons/minotaurs/trolls/giants/ettins/wurms

Enfeebling Blood
Spiteful Spirit{E}
Parasitic Bond/Life Siphon
Cyclone Axe
Watch Yourself!
Disciplined Stance
Bonneti's Defense
Shield's Up! or Heal Sig(used only when you have a stance up) and sometimes Balanced Stance(for Wurms/Giants/Ettins)

Basically with 16 in curses you get a good long 21 seconds of weakness to reduce their damage to that of what a warrior would take if not less when accounting for the added armor from Watch Yourself! And 21 seconds of Spiteful to kill them.

If you do decide to go with Life Siphon I would go with Curses: 12+3+1, Blood: 9+3, Tactics: 9, Soul Reaping: rest of points +1. That gets you the most out of Life Siphon, getting it to 3 pips of Degen and 3 of Regen for you, and it has a 2 second recharge so you can spread it around with Bonnetti's and a Zealous Haft with Cyclone VERY easily.

Hope that helps all the N/W

Kurilk · Dec 13, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

I play a Necro/War as one of my alternate characters, mostly PvE. He does pretty good. He's a Blood/Axe N/W and can handle himself pretty well without massive healing necessary - most of the time. Sometimes, I can get myself into a jam... ehehe.

Blood Magic: 12 + 1 + 1 = 14
Soul Reaping: 3 + 1 = 4
Axe Mastery: 12

Skills:
1 - Executioner's Strike: +34 damage if it hits
2 - Dismember: Deep Wound for 17 seconds, if it hits
3 - Life Siphon: -3 degen, +3 regen for 23 seconds
4 - Vampiric Gaze: Steal 57 health
5 - Life Transfer[Elite]: For 12 seconds, -8 degen, +8 regen
6 - Well of Blood: For 19 seconds, +6 regen
7 - I usually use this for SoC, or Sprint.
8 - Rez Signet

[Edit: Try using an axe that does additional damage vs hexed foes, to take full advantage of life siphon/transfer]

You may wish to put in disrupting chop instead of Sprint or SoC, at the time of this, I don't have the skill. Ehehe. You'd also want to put it in a more convenient location.

For PvP you may wish to sub in Scourge Healing instead of Well of Blood.

Strat: Lure primary target with life transfer, then begin life siphoning multiple targets. Your life shouldn't take a very big decrease, leaving healers free to heal those who actually need it. When a creature (or player should it happen) dies on the front line, use Well of Blood to keep a constant health re-supply on the front lines for tanks. If the health re-supply isn't needed, use Well of Blood anyway to prevent necro creatures from abusing the corpses. It works pretty good for me, although no one really wants a N/W in missions, but hey. ^_^

Let's put it this way, a guy beating on you with an axe, while you have <<<<<<<<<< on your health bar - scary.

I haven't really tested this build out on farming or anything, I might give it a whirl when I get disrupting chop, to keep me enemies from trying to heal. ^_^

Glasswalker · Dec 13, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurilk

For PvP you may wish to sub in Scourge Healing instead of Well of Blood.

Um... SH is a Monk skill. Smiting Prayers.

Plague Touch is one of the classics for N/W or W/N. I would suggest looking at the curses line though. Anything that amplifies physical damage is good stuff. Barbs, Mark of Pain (if you tank)... Weaken Armor and Enfeeble (Enfeebling blood if you tank) are great if you really want to go toe-to-toe with another Warrior, and Rend Enchantments while hard to get off, can get rid of any benifits the enemy had. Parasitic Bond can keep you in health, and makes a great cover hex since it's cheap, casts in 1 second, and if it gets removed, you get healed! Stick it right back on.

I would not recommend going with the 2 superior runes that pagansaint recommended though. Try to make due with one unless you find that you are never targetted.

pagansaint · Dec 14, 2005, 06:59 AM // 06:59

With weakness and Watch Yourself! up the damage you are taking in is less than you are regaining if you go the Life Siphon on 3/4 enemies route. Especially if you take the Healing Signet for when you pop a stance up to max out your health.

Just think of a 16 curses Spiteful as a double length faster recharging Gladiator's Defense...

Also I swapped Disciplined Stance for Shield Stance, works wonders, the added armor from Disciplined Stance isn't really needed, and the duration from Shield Stance works oh so much better. Can actually keep Bonnetti's up the whole time if you want except when you have to re cast weakness and Spiteful, and your Life Siphons.

I'll probably play with taking no heal signet and taking another stance, most likely Disciplined, taking quite a pounding when I have to re-apply the spells. Being able to pop another stance might make up for the loss of the direct heal quite nicely.

Hiryu · Dec 14, 2005, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

If you're going necro primary I wouldn't use hammers, becuase you lose out on Stonefist Gauntlets. I'm interested in this thread, I have a friend that just bought GW and is playing a N/W and I'm trying to think of ways that he could survive in close combat. I've never played a necro primary so I'm at a bit of a loss.

Some ideas on what's available/effective

Beginning Game:
- Blood Spells
- Soul Feast (death magic)

Mid Game:
- Tactics stances
- Blood spells
- Consume Corpse (death magic)

End Game:
- Aura of the Lich {elite} --- best Necro "tanking" skill

You could also consider using Curses to debuff the enemy. Shadow of Fear, Enfeeble, etc. are good options for nerfing the enemy front lines.

Dec 05, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55	#1
Kharnal Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Dec 2005 Profession: N/W	N/W vs. W/N Basically mana vs. armor in a life stealing build N/W would be either a blood/death/hammer or blood/curses/hammer W/N would be either blood/hammer or blood/hammer/strength I'm not sure whether having the extra mana of N/W would keep me alive with life stealing if I'm going melee. I'm not sure if a W/N has enough mana to tank comparable to a W/Monk When it comes to equipment I really have no idea. with a blood/death/hammer build I'm not really sure either if being able to steal life from minions is worth more than putting more points into blood.

Dec 06, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59	#7
Kharnal Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Dec 2005 Profession: N/W	It looks like some of the defensive skills found in tactics (didn't notice it at first, but disciplined stance looks awesome because I can cast with it) would be useful in staying alive. Try and get offensive healing from the necro abilities and defense from warrior skills. So 12/12 Blood and Tactics looks like the build for me. Hope it does enough damage to be effective... Last edited by Kharnal; Dec 06, 2005 at 05:07 PM // 17:07..

Dec 06, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05	#2
eom Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: W/N	so, you're debating which to take? my only character to date is a 15th lvl w/n (sword/curses), so I really couldn't comment much on other builds, but warrior as a secondary seems a little strange to me ---- I'm not sure what you'd get out of it for sacrificing your necro attribute pts and skill bar. I don't really know if you're good enough to stay alive in melee w/necro armor, but I wouldn't get too dependent on minions to keep you alive, as there will be parts of the game w/o any. it kind of depends on your party makeup, I think, and what style of play you like. right now, my warrior armor keeps me alive and I use the crap out of parasitic bond and insidious parasite to heal myself. (note: you get the payoff on one of those when the creature dies, so you don't have to wait the full 20 seonds) as you mentioned, the big drawback is the puny mana pool and the sickly 2 pip regen, but I can get around this somewhat by trying to stick to lower energy spells, getting items and glads armor to double my pool, and using bonetti's defense in a crowd (regain 5 energy every time they whack you).

Dec 06, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19	#3
Kharnal Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Dec 2005 Profession: N/W	My goal is to be an extra damage off-tank, that doesn't depend on the big heal. There's just so many stackable necro life stealing skills that if you aren't taking a lot of damage then you aren't using them to their full advantage. So I'm trying to calcluate the benefits of extra life stealing spells vs. damage reduction of armor. I would want the warrior sub for knockdown with hammers for little mana cuz my armor sux and I would have more mana to spam all my life steal skills.

Dec 06, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58	#4
pagansaint Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005	Axe and Sword are good choices for N/W primaries, due to the fact you can use your offhand for extra energy and skill/recharge boosts. A few of the skills along those lines really can complement the Necro skill set quite well. Adrenaline spike attacks and deep wound are a great help to a VERY energy consuming build, and the faster attack rates plus a zealous hilt can increase your energy effeciency by a good bit.

Dec 06, 2005, 04:19 AM // 04:19	#5
Legendary Battousai Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: CA Guild: [Ryuk] Profession: W/A	mark of pain + hundred blades + barbs FTW

Dec 06, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51	#6
QuixotesGhost Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005	If you're going necro primary I wouldn't use hammers, becuase you lose out on Stonefist Gauntlets. I'm interested in this thread, I have a friend that just bought GW and is playing a N/W and I'm trying to think of ways that he could survive in close combat. I've never played a necro primary so I'm at a bit of a loss.

Dec 06, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25	#8
pagansaint Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005	For PvE the way to go is Cyclone Axe and Watch Yourself! with a Zealous Haft and a defense mod of some kind for survival. Have used this to pretty great effect farming griffons/minotaurs/trolls/giants/ettins/wurms Enfeebling Blood Spiteful Spirit{E} Parasitic Bond/Life Siphon Cyclone Axe Watch Yourself! Disciplined Stance Bonneti's Defense Shield's Up! or Heal Sig(used only when you have a stance up) and sometimes Balanced Stance(for Wurms/Giants/Ettins) Basically with 16 in curses you get a good long 21 seconds of weakness to reduce their damage to that of what a warrior would take if not less when accounting for the added armor from Watch Yourself! And 21 seconds of Spiteful to kill them. If you do decide to go with Life Siphon I would go with Curses: 12+3+1, Blood: 9+3, Tactics: 9, Soul Reaping: rest of points +1. That gets you the most out of Life Siphon, getting it to 3 pips of Degen and 3 of Regen for you, and it has a 2 second recharge so you can spread it around with Bonnetti's and a Zealous Haft with Cyclone VERY easily. Hope that helps all the N/W

Dec 13, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11	#9
Kurilk Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Dec 2005	I play a Necro/War as one of my alternate characters, mostly PvE. He does pretty good. He's a Blood/Axe N/W and can handle himself pretty well without massive healing necessary - most of the time. Sometimes, I can get myself into a jam... ehehe. Blood Magic: 12 + 1 + 1 = 14 Soul Reaping: 3 + 1 = 4 Axe Mastery: 12 Skills: 1 - Executioner's Strike: +34 damage if it hits 2 - Dismember: Deep Wound for 17 seconds, if it hits 3 - Life Siphon: -3 degen, +3 regen for 23 seconds 4 - Vampiric Gaze: Steal 57 health 5 - Life Transfer[Elite]: For 12 seconds, -8 degen, +8 regen 6 - Well of Blood: For 19 seconds, +6 regen 7 - I usually use this for SoC, or Sprint. 8 - Rez Signet [Edit: Try using an axe that does additional damage vs hexed foes, to take full advantage of life siphon/transfer] You may wish to put in disrupting chop instead of Sprint or SoC, at the time of this, I don't have the skill. Ehehe. You'd also want to put it in a more convenient location. For PvP you may wish to sub in Scourge Healing instead of Well of Blood. Strat: Lure primary target with life transfer, then begin life siphoning multiple targets. Your life shouldn't take a very big decrease, leaving healers free to heal those who actually need it. When a creature (or player should it happen) dies on the front line, use Well of Blood to keep a constant health re-supply on the front lines for tanks. If the health re-supply isn't needed, use Well of Blood anyway to prevent necro creatures from abusing the corpses. It works pretty good for me, although no one really wants a N/W in missions, but hey. ^_^ Let's put it this way, a guy beating on you with an axe, while you have <<<<<<<<<< on your health bar - scary. I haven't really tested this build out on farming or anything, I might give it a whirl when I get disrupting chop, to keep me enemies from trying to heal. ^_^

Dec 14, 2005, 06:59 AM // 06:59	#11
pagansaint Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005	With weakness and Watch Yourself! up the damage you are taking in is less than you are regaining if you go the Life Siphon on 3/4 enemies route. Especially if you take the Healing Signet for when you pop a stance up to max out your health. Just think of a 16 curses Spiteful as a double length faster recharging Gladiator's Defense... Also I swapped Disciplined Stance for Shield Stance, works wonders, the added armor from Disciplined Stance isn't really needed, and the duration from Shield Stance works oh so much better. Can actually keep Bonnetti's up the whole time if you want except when you have to re cast weakness and Spiteful, and your Life Siphons. I'll probably play with taking no heal signet and taking another stance, most likely Disciplined, taking quite a pounding when I have to re-apply the spells. Being able to pop another stance might make up for the loss of the direct heal quite nicely.